Introduction: Listening, recording, and reflecting on spaces and periods of time in our life. In the conversation that follows, produced as part of the Canadian Music Centre Multilocation Festival, sound artists April Aliermo and claire rousay reflect on personal histories and their relationships to sound: where they like to listen, how listening and sound connect to emotion, and more. We join them now. 

April Aliermo: Hi, claire, how’s it going down in Texas? 

claire rousay: It’s good. It’s cloudy and rainy, and humid. How are you?  

April Aliermo: Ah, also cloudy and rainy and humid up here in Toronto. So, yeah, scary things to think about or not think about, and immerse ourselves in beautiful soundscapes and music instead.  

claire rousay: Yeah, I’m gonna do that as long as I can, until we’re like living in bunkers.  

April Aliermo: Even then, there’s ways. 

claire rousay: True, yeah.   

April Aliermo: Speaking of bunkers, I was listening to Twin Bed and your other recordings, and I get the sense of being put in certain spaces, like your audience is being taken on a journey, on your journey. And when I listen to softer focus, it’s very moving and beautiful. And a kind of beauty that’s like, full of so many dynamic emotions—somber at times. But one thing that I did get a sense of is a sort of meditative feeling. And I was wondering… and then I read later that you did focus on the state of flow.  

claire rousay: Yeah, you observed exactly what was being attempted, I guess.  

April Aliermo: That’s amazing. It made me feel pretty cool. And I was wondering if you could speak a bit about the idea of creating space, in your work, and the idea of being in a space and an eliciting emotion or feeling an emotion?  

claire rousay: Yeah. So at least for the two things that you referenced by name—the softer focus record, and then the Twin Bed one—those works are really good examples of how I kind of make most of my work or, like, at least my recorded output. So usually, for recordings, the reason or inspiration or kind of like the baseline, I guess, yeah, reason for making work, and making the work I make, it all starts with a field recording most of the time. And as far as taking environmental recordings, field recordings, location recordings, whatever you want to call it, typically, over the last two years, most of those have been domestic recordings, either within my home or somebody else’s home. Due to the pandemic, and everything that’s going on the reason that we’re doing this digitally, instead of in person, you know, a lot of things have changed. But all of my work kind of starts with a field recording and creating something based off of an experience in a space.  

I feel like a lot of the times with field recordings and different environmental recordings, there’s so much focus on what the activity is, and what the reasons and … sometimes emotion, but typically, people focus on the activity in the recording rather than anything outside of that. So the way I like to think about recordings, it’s very much to do with the location and the space. And whatever is happening in that space is not really a huge priority for me in terms of selecting it. It’s really how the space sounds and how I’m reacting to the space as I’m recording it. Obviously, the sonic qualities do, it does matter, its music and sound and that kind of work. But a lot of it is really the emotional experiences that I’m having in the space while recording. 
And every space has its own sounds, whether you’re talking about acoustics or things that just naturally occur in the space. But everything that I do is kind of… it always starts with like a field recording, but really like a snapshot of an emotional experience I’m having directly related to the space that I’m in. 

April Aliermo: Wow, I love that. Do you mind sharing an example of like one of the spaces that you… or one of those homes or rooms that you recorded in? And is it the feeling of the sound that you’re recording or the feeling of being in the space or both that inspire you to be in that spot capturing the recording? 

claire rousay: It’s a little bit of both. A good example would be, I really like to record myself while I’m driving in my car. I live in San Antonio, in Texas more or less, but San Antonio very specifically. The only way to get around is with a car. There’s not really public transportation and the way that things are built in San Antonio, specifically, it’s spread out over such a large area that you have to drive. So let’s say I wanted to go somewhere, and it’s a 15 minute drive, that’s a relatively short drive. 

April Aliermo: Wow. 

claire rousay: You’re like, “oh, it’s only 15 minutes away,” which is crazy, that that is considered the easiest route or something like that. So I do a lot of recording in the car because aside from listening to music, or thinking, or, you know, focusing on driving and being safe as a driver, I like to kind of not … create a dual purpose, but I kind of take advantage of the fact that I am in this zone and this space, that I’m in all the time that’s my space. I own my car. I am the only one in my car, typically. And it’s a really special place and I didn’t really think about that until recently. So a good example would be the car.

I’m in the car, I’m either driving with no sound on, listening to the radio, listening to the road, maybe singing along to music. But I really like to record all of those experiences. Because it’s such a specific feeling—you’re totally alone, but you’re in a safe place. But you’re also in a traveling vehicle, which is statistically a not-safe place at all. And so many things can happen, because it’s like this isolation box, where it’s like, you hear all these sounds from outside that are environmental, but they’re constantly changing, because your geographic location’s changing, but at the same time you’re in the car, and you really aren’t changing locations, which is crazy to think about—that there’s almost like this micro/ macro location while you’re driving. So you never experienced anything outside of your car, because you’re in a car, enclosed, but everything around you changes.  

April Aliermo: Wow that’s a mind-blowing way of thinking about being in a car and that’s interesting to think about that dichotomy of being alone in a busy place in the same place, but in a different place. And that, you know once in a while I’m in a car, and I’m thinking, Wow, this is so dangerous. There are a lot of moving vehicles and objects around and we’re all traveling very closely to each other. 

claire rousay: Yeah, you’re like, you know, like, a meter away from somebody and you’re both going, like, so fast!  

April Aliermo:  …So fast. And then I tend to bring my thoughts away from that, because when I’m thinking about it too much, it starts to feel really overwhelming being in the car. So that’s a really interesting starting point. And so, apart from that feeling of chaos versus safety happening at the same time, are there other feelings happening in the car with you? 

claire rousay: Yeah, I mean, if you’re listening to music, regardless of if it’s on the radio, and you don’t know the song, or you do know the song, or you actively put in a CD, or use like an iPod or something. (I guess people don’t use iPods anymore, like your phone or something.)  

April Aliermo: I was just recently saying how much I want an iPod! 

claire rousay: Do you want one of those… what are they called? The classic ones… like the really big one? 

April Aliermo: Yeah, the big hunky ones where I can see everything and feel the buttons.  

claire rousay: Yeah, I love that clicking sound.  

April Aliermo: Yeah, my bandmate’s like, “why aren’t you listening to music?” I’m like, “I don’t know.” He’s like, “I can put it on your phone. I’m like, I need an iPod. I don’t want it on my phone!” 

claire rousay: Yeah. No, it’s so true. But I also think having that intentional space for digital music is so much of a thing of the past, almost. Because everything is streaming and everything’s connected.  I can listen to my Spotify account on my computer and my phone and my iPad or whatever people have, and like all these different things. And you never really have, like, an intentional digital space where all your music is just in that place and nowhere else. 

April Aliermo: Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I feel like you know, over a decade ago I used to have Winamp on my desktop and that’s when I was so actively listening to digital music, you know, downloading things from Napster, putting it in Winamp. 

claire rousay: 100%. 

April Aliermo: … making mixtapes. And yeah, just like, the mode and vehicle of listening to music has changed. And I’m wondering how did those ideas or that concept connect to the importance of listening to you and your practice, not just in field recording. I know that you are inspired by Pauline Oliveros’ Deep Listening practices. So can you speak a bit about just the idea of listening and its importance to you and your artistic practice? 

claire rousay: Yeah, definitely. If you want to go back to the car example—I feel really connected to my car lately. I’m making a bunch of mixes for different like radio stations and stuff like that. And instead of making like a traditional mix in my computer, I’m making a playlist for longer road trips, or like, long distances that I’m driving, and then I’ll play the playlist in the car and then record it on a field recording device. And that’s how I make my mix, like, if I’m using a handheld recorder. And so you pick up the road sound you pick up like singing along to like songs that you like, and the distance between songs like where you stop something, or like you restart a song. I really like that.  

April Aliermo: So wait, the mixtapes you’re putting out are the field recordings of you listening to the mixtape and interacting with them?  

claire rousay: Yeah. 

April Aliermo: That’s awesome! 

claire rousay: Yeah! I think that’s like, I don’t know, I haven’t heard somebody do a mix like that yet. I’m sure somebody has. But like, not as a series not doing multiple. And like a really weirdly calculated.  

April Aliermo: That’s amazing.

claire rousay: I’m just, yeah, I’m just tired of using Ableton and like DJ like beat-matching software and stuff like that.  

April Aliermo: Yeah. Do you have conversations that come up while you’re listening? Like with your friends on the phone or whatever? Or with with other people on the mixtapes? 

claire rousay: Yeah, I mean, you’ll get everything from somebody on the side of the road… I’ll keep waters and stuff in my car, because it gets really hot here in the summer. And if somebody who doesn’t have housing or is on the side of the road, wants water, you’ll pick up that conversation and you’ll pick up… I don’t know, going through a drive thru to get a smoothie.  

April Aliermo: I was gonna ask! 

claire rousay: Yeah, everything. I think it’s important to capture not just intentional sound. I really like the idea of intentionally capturing sound, but the sounds aren’t necessarily intentional. Does that make sense? 

April Aliermo: Totally. Yeah. And what I like about this mixtape idea is that we’re not just along for your musical journey, but we’re along for your actual journey. 

claire rousay: I know! And it’s so crazy that like, over the course of, let’s say, 60 minutes, I am not only listening to different music, having different reactions to it, interacting with the world around me, but the physical location of my vehicle is changing so much. Sometimes I’ll even go back on the same road. Like if I’m going to and from somewhere. It’s so crazy, because you’ll pass… you’ll be on the same road going the opposite way.  

April Aliermo: Wow.  

claire rousay: And it’ll be like a completely different vibe and experience and sonically and emotionally coming back. Yeah, it’s wild. 

April Aliermo: So if your mixtape is 60 minutes long, will you intentionally drive for 60 minutes? Or will you plan it around running errands? Or… 

claire rousay: I plan it around running errands. I’m not just like, burning gas, like, Yeah, no, definitely not…  

April Aliermo:  … humid and rainy and cold.  

claire rousay: Yeah, I was gonna say like, oh, yeah, it’s completely my fault now. [laughs] If you want to take it back to the Deep Listening, and the importance of listening and sound practices, and listening practices, I realized as my life has fallen apart and been put back together multiple times over the past three years or so, there’s been a bunch of crazy stuff that has happened and I’ve reacted to it, and all these different things, the only constant that I really have is sound. And that’s something that’s free that can’t be taken away from you. 
Like, even if you don’t have the same listening and physical hearing abilities as other people, the way sound works and interacts with the rest of the world still can’t be taken away, like the vibrations are still there. And that’s something that’s so special, that’s so simple. So it’s like things come and go, people, relationships, jobs, all that kind of stuff—all these things are in flux. They’re not ever staying the same, but you still get the same sensory aspect of things, it’s always changing, but you’re still sensing it. You may be in an office for a year, and then you’re working outside next year, for some reason, and your experience on a day-to-day schedule is like, you hear so many different sounds in your life. And if you just take like, three seconds to put just a tiny bit more effort into listening—because hearing and listening are obviously different things—but if you put just a little bit of effort to turn hearing into listening, things become, so much bigger than you could ever imagine. It just becomes amazing. It’s so amazing, and the fact that things have come and gone, but that has never been taken away from me is beautiful. 

April Aliermo: That is beautiful. That’s such a beautiful way of thinking about sound and having a relationship with sound. And it’s also reminding me of you being in your car, everything around is changing and chaotic at times (or not) but the car is a constant and the feeling of being in the car, it’s the same way the sound is a constant. 

claire rousay: Yeah. And it could be the same kind of cheesy way of people being like, YouTubers or like influencers, are like “I’m just focusing on me, all I need is myself, and I don’t need anybody else.” But that is the same thing with sound or any kind of sensory experience. It’s something that you have, and your experience with that is unique. And that is your thing—you experienced that sound in that moment from your ears, the way your ears work, felt the vibrations, if it’s that kind of a thing, and it’s a unique experience. If you just tune into it. I don’t know, do you have intentional sound practices like listening practices? 

April Aliermo: Yeah, totally. I mean, not as much as I would like to. I think it’s more when I’m out intentionally recording sounds with special microphones. I’ve been experimenting a lot with electromagnetic microphones that I just got a geophone, but I find that going and intentionally looking for sounds and listening instead of just hearing because we’re always hearing sounds but not stopping to listen, you’re right, there’s a huge difference. 
And it can be overwhelming, actually, to just sit and listen to all the sounds that are happening. It can become very overwhelming—I’ve definitely been in that state before—and meditative, which again, goes back to the compositions that you create, there’s a definitely a meditative feeling. And I can see how it’s connected to everything that you’re saying. 

claire rousay: Listening is so special. I mean, it’s the most important thing to me. So, if you make sound work at all, and you don’t value listening, I feel like, you’re not necessarily doing it the wrong way, but you’re missing out on so many things. Like, maybe not material for work and, you know, creating stuff with an agenda, but just like an emotional experience. Like, that’s so sick to hear an airplane go by—not everybody gets to hear an airplane. That’s so cool. 

April Aliermo: It’s true. It’s pretty amazing. So we both… we both actually grew up in the church.  

claire rousay: Yeah.  

April Aliermo: I am no longer religious like that. 

claire rousay: Neither am I. 

April Aliermo: But I do feel that growing up in that space where I had to just sit and be quiet and be pensive some of the time— half the time I was getting in trouble for whispering to my sister, trying to make jokes. But I think that that idea of practicing being reverent or finding reverence in a space has definitely affected the way I can just sit and listen or patiently record a sound out in the field. I’m wondering if that has at all come into play in your work or has any influence on your creations or your field recordings. 

claire rousay: Yeah, I mean, I think that kind of importance on anything being thrust upon you as a young individual has like a huge lasting impact on you. Like, can you imagine people who have not, didn’t grow up with something being told like “this is sacred, this is a very important thing that you have to, 1.) interact with in a very specific way, but 2.)  it’s important, and you have to treat it with this utmost respect.” And I feel like that’s how I feel about sound, right? It’s a special thing that I totally, almost like submit myself to, which is kind of… it’s like, following patterns that I learned in church. 

But growing up religious, like you put so much of an emphasis and an importance on this one thing. And I think being a kid and having that in your head, that there’s something so important, and it’s bigger than you, and you have to treat it with the most respect, and focus on it in this way that’s so singular, almost, where it’s like, it’s all-encompassing, right—God is everything and everything else is way smaller than him, or whatever. And I think growing up in that kind of environment, I think it’s less about the actual sound aspect of being in church or like location, and the importance put on something outside yourself. And that totally shaped the way I do everything.  

I mean, like I played drums, in an evangelical, kind of rock Christian band in church because I went to cool Wednesday night church for teenagers who were all like “I’ll drink a soda, talk to some pretty girl, but I would only court her, I would never date her—that’s not for Christians!” Do you know what I mean? I did put a lot of myself into my religious upbringing, and I was totally sold. I was in it. Like, I loved it. And I think just transferring that energy into something else has been, I mean, it’s made the world a better place, that’s for sure, or it maybe has not made it a worse place. Not that everybody who goes to church is terrible, but there are a lot of flaws for sure. I don’t know.

Did you have experiences in church or like growing up religious specifically, that affected or impacted your sound practice, like from a sonic standpoint? Experiences while you’re younger? 

April Aliermo: Yeah, I think mainly just being able to sit quietly, and get into like a zone and think about, really not much else except just like being, and being in that meditative state. I think that has definitely carried on in my adult life. I abandoned so much else of it but that particular thing… I thought it was interesting that we both grew up in church.There’s still things I appreciate about it. But a lot of it, as you said, I find deeply flawed, especially in the institution. 

claire rousay: Yeah, well, it’s just I don’t know…. I can’t say that I know that if this person existed or not, or like all these things that happened happened to the way that they did, or if they happened at all. Not to compare the two things at all, but I do feel the same way about like, church becoming this institution with this agenda, and this very specific way of teaching people how to do something, and how much that correlates with other things that have been institutionalized in just the last couple of hundred years. I mean, the primary example that comes to my mind is jazz—a music that was not respected at all, and now it’s like, you can have a degree from a university that you’ll never be able to pay back for going there. And I think the church is the same way, right? They’re like, Oh, it started with like, just these people and this doing this thing, and it was revolutionary. I was like, if it was so revolutionary, like, why, why are we doing this this way, then? It’s the same thing with a lot of different things, like experimental music, even… 

April Aliermo: Tell me more. 

claire rousay: I mean, I didn’t go to grad school. I didn’t go to school for music. I didn’t. I don’t know anything that my peers and like colleagues do.  

April Aliermo: Same. 

claire rousay: I didn’t know how to use Ableton until like eight months ago, when I was making the record. It’s cool to learn things in a different way. And I’m not saying that music education is bad for sure, that’s not what I’m saying. But there are certain aspects that maybe it’s there isn’t one way to do something. And I think there’s a lot of listening and sound practice that is kind of put on people like “this is the way to do it.” 

April Aliermo: Totally. I know you just said there are a lot of different ways, and you’re not into the idea of an institution telling you there’s one way to do something. But if you had to tell someone, what is wrong with the way we listen today, what would you say? And what are your own listening practices that you are willing to share that others might be able to practice themselves? 

claire rousay: I think deciding what you want to listen to is the most important thing. Like, what you want, what sounds you like? I don’t know, if you’re talking about fidelity of recordings, people are so stuck on like, high fidelity recordings. It’s like, I didn’t know how to make a high fidelity recording until like, a year-and-a-half ago… I made all of my music on like my phone and my laptop speakers, it didn’t matter, because I liked the way that sounded. So that’s the way it ended up sounding.  

As far as listening practice, and actually creating things, and more of that process, I think deciding what you want to do is important. Like, what’s important to you? You get into field recording, right,—let’s follow that route. Are you only going to record in the jungle, or the desert, or a waterfall? What if you like doing urban recordings? It’s like, “Okay, well, are you only going to record in a city? Are you only going to record in high traffic areas in the city?” What do you like to listen to? Because I think, ultimately, for me capturing a recording, it’s so special, because I get to have that experience, and then I get to relive it!  Not in a necessarily, like, totally nostalgic way, but if something’s important to you, and you are the one that chooses to document it, not document it, listen or not listen, I think that is that’s what people …  I’m not an expert on anything, obviously, but I just feel like I didn’t really have somebody telling me what to listen to and what not to listen to. And that ultimately is what made it such a special solo, kind of individual, endeavor for me. Does that make sense? 

April Aliermo: Yeah, totally.  And again, listening to your records, you can definitely hear that it’s your journey that we’re being taken on. And I’m wondering, when you are taking your field recordings, and you sift through them, and you find the stuff that you like, and they’re the things that maybe are eliciting the most emotion for you, how much of that is inspiring the rest of the composition? 

claire rousay: It’s always where it starts. So 100%? Even if the composition changes later on, and I have a 20 minute recording that I haven’t edited at all and 10 minutes into the piece, I’m like, “Oh, actually, I need to duck this down. Like, we don’t need to hear the train go by a fifth time.” or something like that. And it’s like, “Okay, well, I can just bump it back up when I’m ready to use it.” Obviously, I’m not a purist, like, “I have to use the whole recording, I can’t chop it up can’t do anything,” but it does inspire the rest of the piece. It’s always where it starts. It’s not like I’m like sitting at a piano figuring out harmonies, and a melody to put over these chords or something like that. That’s not my vibe. I just think, “okay, what’s the most important thing to me?” The field recording, the emotional experience of being in a space okay, that’s what I’ll start with. And then things build from there. I’m just like listening back to recordings being like, “what sounds do I like? What’s my favorite sound? What’s something that I should omit? Do I have to take it out of this recording? Or is there another one that has fits all these checks all the boxes?”  I don’t know. The field recording is the most important part, the emotional experience that I have usually dictates which ones I choose. And you can tell sometimes in the recording if it’s triggering or like causing a certain emotion rather than rather than a different one? 

April Aliermo: Um, can you elaborate a little bit more on the actual emotions that you were feeling with those field recordings in softer focus? 

claire rousay: Yeah, I mean, one of them it’s a field recording going to this farmers market that I sometimes go to here in town. It’s like a bougie rich person’s outdoor market  

April Aliermo: I love bougie rich person’s markets!  

claire rousay: Oh, yeah. 100%. It’s this place in San Antonio. It had free parking, so you could go to the market and park for free. But now you have to pay to park! 

April Aliermo: Boooo! 

claire rousay: And I’m like, are you kidding me? Like, no, we could walk here. But anyway, before that was the case I went. And I have a couple of friends who work for different businesses that do stuff there. So sometimes in those recordings, it’s like, okay, I wanted to go here, I’ll record the sound of a bunch of people doing stuff you’ll be passing by people playing music, you’ll be passing by, like kids playing at the same time, like dogs are fighting or like, are in a line and dogs are barking at each other. I’ll have a friend that’s working at the coffee shop or like some other business that’s doing a pop-up there. And you’ll catch a conversation that I have with that person just because I’m recording the whole time not thinking about it. But just going into the situation being like, “I love the way this sounds, I’m gonna listen to it and capture it. And if anything sticks, I’ll go back to it.”  

But walking around, and being really stressed out, overwhelmed by the sound—going to big gatherings like that—I mean, obviously, prior to the pandemic and everything—it’s still really overwhelming… Like that many people in that space, everybody’s shouting and buying stuff and calling people’s names when their stuffs ready. You’re like really overwhelming, like, having a really hard time. And then you’ll walk and you’ll hear like dog collars jingling. And you’ll hear me like laugh or smile or something like you can tell immediately, it’s like, super stressed zone. A little bit further, it’s like “whoa, that dog’s really cute.” And everything’s a little bit better—have a conversation with somebody I am friends with. And then the positive energy keeps going. I don’t know, like waiting really long, a long time for my food or something like really not big problems, but you’ll be able to gauge where the person recording it is at almost, if they are letting themselves be in the recording. 

A lot of myself is in all of my recordings. I record myself cooking a lot because I really like the way harder produce sounds when you cut it like carrots or onions and stuff like that. But I’m really clumsy—we’re on a video now, so nobody’s gonna be able see this on the audio recording, but I cut my fingers on my hands all the time while I’m cooking, cuz I’m really clumsy! But like, yeah, I’ll cut my finger and I’ll be like “Oh no” and you’ll hear me swearing and just like stomping off into like the bathroom to get the first aid kit really quick and wrap my finger up. And then I’ll be boiling something and the water will spill over and you hear me run back and be like, “Oh no.” It’s like, multiple accidents after another. And then finally it settles down. And it’s really cool to have that all recorded instead of somebody being like, “oh, why do you have a band aid?” and you’re like “Oh I cut myself”… It’s like “No, here’s the whole thing. You want to hear 20 minutes of my life just going down the drain? Cuz I have that!” 

April Aliermo: Okay, so it’s not so much necessarily that you’re recording something because of a specific emotion, but it’s more like you’re capturing all the emotions, big and small. Or it’s almost like your everyday emotions, and then focusing and putting a magnifying glass on them and being like, “Wow, I’ve just had a million emotions in 20 minutes.” 

claire rousay: And they can be measured. Like cuz you have the data almost, you know? It’s so cool. Do you record yourself at home at all? Like inside your house?  

April Aliermo: No, I mean, not… other than music? No, I don’t actually record myself doing activity, but I might try it as an exercise to listen back. That’s a lot of introspection that I will need to prepare myself for. 

claire rousay: Yeah, no, definitely. Does it matter to you at all, or is it something that would be a practice that you would get something out of it that isn’t necessarily the experience that I’m having? Does that make sense? Like you would get something else out of it rather than like the emotional just like really in it thing? 

April Aliermo: Yeah, totally. I think it’s an interesting practice which I will try. I’ve been working on a mindfulness practice, so I’ve been doing Qigong four times a week, and I find it really relaxing and meditative. But I’m almost like nervous or scared to record myself, having my day and seeing like, how intense or dramatic or boring things might be. And in some ways, it’s a good reflection on whether I’m actually practicing mindfulness or if I’m being overly dramatic at certain times or not. 

claire rousay: Yeah, no, that makes sense. Um, do you feel your mood changes based off of your location? Like, the different spaces you’re in? 

April Aliermo: For sure. Yeah, totally. I think my mood changes, you know, now that I’m thinking about recording it, I’m imagining how many times my mood changes in a day, and how nervous that’s making me feel! 

claire rousay: Right. As far as like your mindfulness practice goes, does that involve also being mindful of the way you’re feeling and your emotions, but it’s almost like, it doesn’t matter what the emotion is, as long as you’re tapped into it, and like being mindful of certain things? Or is it more trying to maintain this… not stoicism like, you’re not, you’re not to be a stoic person, but, this kind of, like baseline operating level of “things are okay.” Or is it completely just, at the will of whatever emotions you’re feeling? 

April Aliermo: Growing up, up until let’s say, five years ago, well no—a year ago—always at the will of my emotions. And I think that what I’ve been trying to practice is like a state of steady, Zen equilibrium, you know, like, something is happening, and it’s outside of me, and how can I be less reactive? So it’ll be interesting to record myself throughout a day, including conversations that I have, just to see. Really witness and see and hear how emotional I get or not, and maybe strive towards what I would like to be: more of a Zen equilibrium. I feel like now I don’t mind being emotional. Like if I’m happy, I’m really happy. If I’m upset, I’m really upset. If I’m sad,  I’m like, really sad. I think I’m just wanting to be like, ultimate chill. 

claire rousay: Hell yeah. That’s cool, though. I mean, I think that’s a practice that I would really benefit from. Because obviously, based off of everything I’ve told you right now, I act like a petulant child most of the time. And like, I’m really reactive and really not in control of my emotions a lot. Although I don’t think it’s necessarily ever harmful. I think it’s just a little wild. I’m just crazy. 

April Aliermo: Same, and I think maybe I can see, well for me anyway, the sound art that I’ve been practicing for the last few years has been an expression of meditation. One of my most recent projects is discs of ice melting on metallic sculptures just to hear like the drops change over time 

claire rousay: Right, that’s so cool.  

April Aliermo: And like the echo of the drops themselves have like a feeling… What is it with reverb and that feeling that it gives you that’s just like, moving? 

claire rousay: Well it’s cool because it’s like, depth, right? Because you have the depth of the space, but also, things can resonate inside you—kind of in a hippie trippy way… but it’s so true! Certain things kind of go deeper for you than other things. And I think that is totally related to the space. Reverb is such a location-based thing, right? It’s so cool! 

April Aliermo: I just love it and and my partner and I we finally after years and years and years of dreaming of a Space Echo we finally pulled the trigger and just bought a Space Echo.  

claire rousay: Yeah.  

April Aliermo: And I’m like, wow, this beautiful machine where tape is just moving and it’s creating like, the sound of delay and it’s like, echoing and has this reverb that just feels bigger than myself. 

claire rousay: It’s an incredible thing. And it’s so cool because you see it. It’s physical too.  

April Aliermo: Yeah! So going back to the beginning of our conversation thinking about space and eliciting emotion, like the actual feeling that the sound of space gives is pretty incredible and I feel like it’s universal? I don’t know. 

claire rousay: I would think so. I mean, anybody can inhabit a space, right? Maybe not a specific space.  

April Aliermo: But, when people experience reverb… isn’t it universally moving?  

claire rousay: I think so.  

April Aliermo: Is there anyone who would listen to the sound of reverb and not be moved? 

claire rousay: I don’t think so. I mean if you put somebody in a cave, and you went [clicks tongue], made that sound? As a kid, first time I was in a cave, I was like “no way this exists? A space like this with these qualities exists? That is so sick.” And it was totally moving, right? I feel like it is universal, because like, if you use children, or people like that, haven’t had all the baggage and weird preconceptions, if you put them in a space and make a sound, and then reverb, you know, does its thing (and it’s very unique to each space) what kid isn’t gonna be like, “whoaaaaa.” If you go in a cave and throw a rock, what kid is not going to be like “Yeah, that, at the very least, sounds different than when we were not in the cave.” 

April Aliermo: What kid is gonna say “this is boring, I’m outta here?” It’s true. They’re gonna want to keep throwing more rocks. 

claire rousay: Exactly! Exploring it. Maybe they don’t have the word for it. But they know that the sound is different and that you can interact with that kind of environment to create sounds that are utilizing reverb—you can almost control it in a way, depending on how loud you are and where in the space you are. I think that’s a universal thing, for sure. I mean, if the kid doesn’t like that, then they’re staying in the cave… I’m leaving. 

April Aliermo: I agree with you.  Unless you have anything else that you wanted to add or talk about in terms of space, or field recordings, or emotion, I feel like ending on the idea that space and reverb and the feelings that it elicits are universal, feel like that is a great conclusion for us. 

claire rousay: I have a question. You can give me like one or two examples. What are your favorite spaces to listen in? I’m just curious. 

April Aliermo: That’s a good question. Actually one of my favourite favourite favourite places in the whole world to listen to are the most silent places. When a place is really, really quiet I just want to sit there and listen because I’m actually in awe of how silent a space can be.  

A few winters ago a few friends of mine and rented a cabin in cottage country. And it was the winter —the dead of winter. So nobody was around. No one wants to be up there in the winter. And I guess snow has a natural way of dampening sound. So the lake was frozen, the place was covered in snow. No one was around and it was dead silent and I would just love sitting there in silence listening.  

Most recently, I was out visiting a friend on Galiano Island. There’s like less than 1,000 people who live there—most of them are senior citizens just tucked into their woods. I feel like Galiano was like a forest that people live in, not a place that people live. Do you know what I mean? A forest with people in it?  

claire rousay: Yeah.  

April Aliermo: So there were definitely walks that were just like so silent. Maybe if you listen carefully, you’ll hear birds or animals…. but again, silent places are my favorite places.  

Going back to the winter home, it would be super quiet. And then, towards the end of the winter when the lake was starting to melt, the lake itself while it was frozen had a deep sound. And if you ever have a chance to listen to a melting lake while it’s still mostly frozen, it’s incredible.  

claire rousay: Yeah. I mean, that’s the same thing where you like, drop the hydrophone in the bucket of ice, and then you pour room temperature water and you can hear the ice cracking. Yeah, assuming it’s like that but just kind of like a massive level. 

April Aliermo: Yeah, it actually has a deep… At first I was like, what is this? Because it was a very bassy, deep hum.  

claire rousay: Just because of the size and heavy that might be?  

April Aliermo: I think so I don’t actually know. I didn’t look up the science of it.  

claire rousay: No, it’s fine. I’m just spit-balling. That’s so cool though… did you record it at all? 

April Aliermo: I only had my phone to record it with and I didn’t have a hydrophone at the time… 

claire rousay: I mean, you have the experience in your head, right? That’s all that really matters. 

claire rousay: Yeah, it was a deep hum. It was incredible. But yeah, so very silent places are probably my favorite places to listen. And then also, you know, just in my headphones, because then I can be immersed in the sound in my head. Yeah. What about you? What are your two favorite places to listen?  

claire rousay: Anywhere that’s heavily populated with people having conversations. I really like hearing snippets, like micro-statements in these conversations because you can hear like six different things at once. Somebody’s mom’s yelling, the other person is yelling at their boss, the other person is the boss yelling at the employee. And it’s like a bunch of stuff, it’s cool. And then altogether, it’s like, the tone of people’s voices, the languages they’re speaking, the volume, it’s cool. That, and then probably my house. My house is a really special thing to me, regardless of where the actual building is, or what the building is, but my home is important to me. 

April Aliermo: I love that. Home is where the heart is.  

claire rousay: I know. And I’ve got such a big heart, maybe in a flawed way.  

April Aliermo: Last question. Are there any specific populated places or cities that you particularly have fond memories of sitting and listening in? 

claire rousay: I mean, like New York is, like, the worst place in the world, but it’s good for that. Yeah. Pretty much it. 

April Aliermo: Cool. I think this is a good place to end our conversation.  

claire rousay: I think so.  

April Aliermo: I feel like we could keep going on and on and on about sound and listening. 

claire rousay: Yeah, I was gonna say I like that we like talked about, like, “Oh, we might talk about these things.” I mean, we did this much. We’re like talking for almost an hour. It’s fun. 

April Aliermo: Well, I loved your performance. That you did for CMC for this festival. And hopefully, I can see you play live one day in real life.  

claire rousay: I know. I hope we get to meet in person.  

April Aliermo: That’d be awesome. We could go on some nerdy field recording… 

claire rousay: Oh, most definitely. Yeah. Go find a frozen lake. 

April Aliermo: Oh my god. Yeah. Sounds great. Um, in the meantime, good luck in weird Texan weather.  

claire rousay: Yeah, you too, stay safe.  

April Aliermo: Yeah, you too have fun playing music and listening and recording and thank you so much. It’s been really fun and inspiring.  

claire rousay: Yeah, thank you for talking to me. 

Outro: Special thanks to claire rousay and April aliermo for participating in this conversation. We can’t wait for the sonic adventures of claire and April to become a reality. The Multilocation festival is curated by Nick Storring, and runs July twelfth to twenty-third. Visit cmccanada.org to learn more and experience audio, video, and interactive web pieces—many of which will remain available after the festival. 

The CMC Presents Multilocation Festival is generously supported by The Canada Council for the Arts, the Department of Canadian Heritage, The SOCAN Foundation, FACTOR, The Ontario Arts Council, The Toronto Arts Council, and the Ontario Arts Foundation. This presentation is also supported by The McLean Foundation and the Canada Arts Presentation Fund. The intro and outro music feature excerpts from Ann Southam’s Reprieve. 

Thanks for listening.